Sunday, November 10, 2013

Experiment and Rule Updates

So just as an experiment, I decided to translate, verbatim, the pater noster from the original gothic. Just the words, mind you, not actually fiddling around with the grammar, to see if any new ideas or questions might reveal themselves in the manipulation of the phonology.

The original, with my gloss (and we can argue that on another blog):


swa nū bidjáiþ jūs:
atta unsar þu in himinam,
weihnái namō þein.
qimái þiudinassus þeins.
waírþái wilja þeins,
swē in himina jah ana aírþái.
hlaif unsarana þana sinteinan gif uns himma daga.
jah aflēt uns þatei skulans sijáima,
swaswē jah weis aflētam þaim skulam unsaráim.
jah ni briggáis uns in fraistubnjái,
ak lausei uns af þamma ubilin;
untē þeina ist þiudangardi jah mahts
jah wulþus in aiwins. amēn.
untē jabái aflētiþ mannam missadēdins izē, aflētiþ jah izwis atta izwar sa ufar himinam.
iþ jabái ni aflētiþ mannam missadēdins izē, ni þau atta izwar aflētiþ missadēdins izwarōs.

Gothic Gloss:

swa nū bidjɛ̄þ jūs:
atta unsar þu in himinam,
wīhnɛ̄ namō þīn.
kwimɛ̄ þiuđinassus þīns.
wɛrþɛ̄ wilja þīns,
swē in himina jah ana ɛrþɛ̄.
hlɛ̄f unsarana þana sintīnan gif uns himma daǥa.
jah aflēt uns þatī skulans sijɛ̄ma,
swaswē jah wīs aflētam þɛm skulam unsarɛm.
jah ni briŋgɛs uns in frɛstuƀnjɛ̄,
ak lɔ̄sī uns af þamma uƀilin;
untē þīna ist þiuđangardi jah mahts
jah wulþus in ɛ̄wins. amēn.
untē jaƀɛ̄ aflētiþ mannam missađēđins izē, aflētiþ jah izwis atta izwar sa ufar himinam.
iþ jaƀɛ ni aflētiþ mannam missađēđins izē, ni þɔ̄ atta izwar aflētiþ missađēđins izwarōs.

Gytc Gloss:

swā nau bidʒeþ jaus:
atta unsra þau in himinma,
waihne namo þain.
kwime þȳðnassas þains.
werþe wili þains,
swī in himin jā an erðe.
hlēf unsran þan sintainan gif uns himdag.
jā aflīt uns þat ai skulans saijem,
swaswī jā wais aflītma þem skulma unsarem.
jā nai bringes uns in frestyvni,
ak lœ̄si uns af þam yvlan;
unte þaina ist þȳðnagarþ jā māts
jā wulþas in ēwins. amīn.
unte jave aflītiþ manma misðīðnas iʒe, aflītiþ jā iʒus atta iʒur sā uvra himinma.
iþ jave nai aflītiþ manma misðīðnas iʒe, nai þō atta iʒur aflītiþ misðīðnas iʒuros.


swā nū bidʒeþ jūs:
atta unsra þū in himinma,
wīhne namo þīn.
kwime þȳðnassas þīns.
werþe wili þīns,
swē in himin jā an erðe.
hlaif unsran þan sintīnan gif uns himdag.
jā aflēt uns þat ī skulans sījem,
swaswē jā wīs aflētma þem skulma unsarem.
jā nī bringes uns in frestyvni,
ak lœ̄si uns af þam yvlan;
unte þīna ist þȳðnagarþ jā māts
jā wulþas in aiwins. amēn.
unte jave aflētiþ manma misðēðnas iʒe, aflētiþ jā iʒus atta iʒur sā uvra himinma.
iþ jave nī aflētiþ manma misðēðnas iʒe, nī þau atta iʒur aflētiþ misðēðnas iʒuros.

Preliminary Thoughts:

Final –wa, –wi → u
Final –u → a
Final –ja → i… implications here for class 1 weak verbs, end in /–in/, not /–na/. Class 2, /–on/ > /–an/, Class 3 /–na/, Class 4 /–nan/.

Some specifics about vowel reduction: Short vowels are deleted in unstressed interior syllables, but that has to happen after vowel reduction in final syllables, and if a final syllable is reduced to a syllabic (which will later be expanded), the unstressed internal vowel cannot be deleted (e.g. himinam > himinm̩ > himinma, not himinam > himnam > himn̩m̩ > himnama) …or do I actually like that better?

It looks like I’m going to want to start separating the clitics before vowel raising and umlaut, or ‘þatei’ is going to become ‘þetē’ instead of ‘þat ī’.

I’m starting to like the idea of intervocalic /f/ and /þ/ becoming voiced; I think I’m going to make that an official rule, since too many years of studying Old Norse are making me constantly do it accidentally anyway. I don’t think I’ll extend it to /s/, though.

Interestingly enough, despite all of the sound changes I’ve implemented, the orthography I’ve proposed makes it all very similar to the original; I’d imagine that a Gytc speaker would be able to read Gothic, though brutally mispronounce it, much in the same way Icelandic speakers can read Old Norse. Or, well, for that matter, the way we spell English in, ostensibly, Late Middle English.

New rules:
  • [ij]V→īV (this can be stuck in just before long vowel raising, maybe as part of Final Short Vowel Lengthening… only no longer just final), and 
  • Ø → j / V[+stressed]____+v (this is a persistent rule from early on in Gothic). 
    • Hence, sija > sīja, ijōs > ījos, etc. Looks like this is going to tromp on my dreams of ija becoming iʒa, but that’s okay; that needed to be sorted out anyway. 
  • [f,þ] → [+voiced] / V_____S. (Any reason not to add this in as an extension of stop-to-fricative expansion?)
  • Clitic separation
    • –ei#, -u-, -uh# → #ei#, #u#, #uh# (ev. ī, ū, ō)
      • /ū/ precedes the primary verb.
  • Deus Ex Machina
    • A nice little persistent rule I made up that can contain non-locatable changes or things I just think would sound better (like mf# → m), but don’t feel like explaining or putting into historical context.
I've updated the rules list at, along with still-outstanding questions. Bulleted and numbered lists are a bear in any system, and forget about moving from MS Word to Google Sites, so please forgive any inconsistencies for the time being. Once they're a little more solidified I'll try to go through the actual HTML code and make sure they're polished up a little.

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